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Date Posted: 04:03:42 08/12/07 Sun
Author: Joan
Author Host/IP: ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net / 68.0.253.131
Subject: OK, back to our regularly scheduled program
Since we kinda touched on problematic doctrines, how about discussing the assumption of Mary.
What do you think of the doctrine that Mary was assumed into heaven?
Joan
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I believe it.................... -- Neysa, 10:32:50 08/12/07 Sun [1] (user-2inik89.dialup.mindspring.com/165.121.81.9)
I have no problems with the doctrine that Mary was assumed into heaven. I believe as the doga states that Mary was taken with her body and soul united into heaven.
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Re: I believe it.................... -- Joan, 15:52:07 08/12/07 Sun [1] (ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net/68.0.253.131)
I beleive it, too. The best evidence to me is the lack of a grave and...OK I'm drawing a blank on the word I'm looking for. Anyway, there hasn't ever been a claim by any church that they have a bit of bone, blood, or anything else. That's too hard to believe when churches claim everything from whole bodies to bits of Jesus' cross. Wouldn't some church claim the --what is that word!!-- bones of Mary? And I think that a church would've been built over her grave, too.
There are early writings about Mary that I've never read, so I just have to accept the conclusions of the experts.
I think, other than the Eucharist, Mary's assumption is probably the most difficult Catholic doctrine to accept.
Joan
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Joan -- Neysa, 00:19:01 08/13/07 Mon [1] (user-38lci29.dialup.mindspring.com/209.86.72.73)
Is the word you are looking for 'mortal remains'. What you stated is the best logic ever, that no mortal remains, no grave was ever found of the Blessed Mother. That is very solid proof that Mary went body and soul into heaven.
I also just thought very simply that Mary is very 'special'. After all she is the Mother of Jesus. Therefore, unlike us when we die our soul leaves our body and goes to heaven, and our flesh returns to dust. Mary, being very special should go to heaven with both her body and soul.
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Joan & Neysa -- catie, 05:03:57 08/13/07 Mon [1] (h32.237.213.151.ip.alltel.net/151.213.237.32)
Although what struck me most when reading your posts about this, was that the amount of faith it requires for even a Catholic to believe in the assumption of Mary. For that I honor you. I think a lot of the Christian walk must be lived by faith. But of course, not being Catholic, I do not believe in the assumption of Mary. That won't come as a surprise to y'all though. :)
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Nesya -- Catie, 05:37:41 08/13/07 Mon [1] (h32.237.213.151.ip.alltel.net/151.213.237.32)
You mentioned several posts back about wanting to know my position on things, my religious beliefs. It's something I've given much thought to, whether or not to go in to detail about it. After all we have agreed to disagree here. Still, at the risk of coming across as unlearned or unsure of my answers, I have simply refrained, or held back on stating a lot of my own beliefs. This is a Catholic forum, so to go in to detail my faith, which contradicts Catholicism, seems as if I have come here to cause dissention or to be rude. Does that make sense? I will try to abbreviate what I believe.
I do believe a person consists of 3 parts. Body, soul and spirit. The spirit is breath. It is in fact the breath of God breathed into us that gives us our spirit. The mind holds our thoughts, our deeds, our memories, conscious. It can not function without breath, spirit. It is God's breath that brings to life all things. Together the spirit and the conscious create our soul. The body is but a house of that holds the soul. When we die the body fades, becomes dust if you will. But the breath of God that lives in us must go back to where it came from. We know the very breath of God isn't just going to "go away". So reasoning tells me it goes back to God. Your breath is life, but can not serve you if you don't have your conscious. It is safely in the arms of God. He holds it just as he did before we came to earth as a baby. We have no memory of such time because it requires a mind to hold memories. So where is our conscious? The bible speaks of the "soul" that it "sleeps" in death. Christ referred to the saints as "sleeping". Not as we know sleep, but a rest that has no sense of time, no knowledge. At the ressurection, When Christ returns, God will breath into us life, our spirit will return and he said we would have "new bodies". Why would the old body be needed if folks go straignt to heaven upon death and are ressurected later? God uses the old vessel because we know in heaven we will be recognizable in some way. He said we will be known as we are known here. So the old body will be recreated, given back the spirit, the breath of God and the two together will once again create our soul. That's why I believe no one can go straight to heaven upon death. There are exceptions- such as in the case of Elijah where God "took" him into glory. But the ones he made exceptions to , he spoke of in scripture and gave reason why he did so.
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Bumping for Neysa to read -- Catie, 19:34:56 08/14/07 Tue [1] (h32.237.213.151.ip.alltel.net/151.213.237.32)
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Catie............ -- Neysa, 21:03:17 08/14/07 Tue [1] (user-38lcibm.dialup.mindspring.com/209.86.73.118)
I did read your post yesterday. Then, you posted asking me about the Pope. That took me most of the day to answer. When I was finished I was emotionally drained. I was feeling sluggish all day today. As I said I'm a night owl, so I'm wide awake now. Thank you for bumping the post up so I didn't have to look for it.
When I first starting reading your reply, I thought wow, I never heard of that. I just thought that we were made up of two parts body and the soul. To me the spirit is the soul. I found your view to be very interesting that a person is made up of three parts body, soul, spirit.
I never really gave much thought about the soul in death. I just thought that your soul is either having a great time in heaven, sad in purgatory because it is not in heaven with Jesus. Suffering terrible anguish in hell.
You mentioned that the soul 'sleeps' ( rests) in death that it has no sense of time. I believe that, it really makes sense to me. Once your dead why would you need a sense of time.
Catie, you mentioned that when Christ returns our old body will be recreated, and given back to us. My question is this: Lets say a person was in an accident, and lost a foot. Will that person be given back the body he had before the accident, or the body when he was crippled?
Lastly, you stated that you believe that no one can go straight to heaven upon death. Where do you believe they go? Do Protestants believe in purgatory ?
Once, again thank you for sharing your religious beliefs.
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Neysa -- Catie, 07:29:22 08/15/07 Wed [1] (h69.42.91.75.ip.alltel.net/75.91.42.69)
"My question is this: Lets say a person was in an accident, and lost a foot. Will that person be given back the body he had before the accident, or the body when he was crippled?"
According to scripture in the new testament, our new bodies will be whole. According to the bible, there will be no sickness, no lame, no blindness, no broken parts in heaven. :)
"Do Protestants believe in purgatory?"
No. Protestants, on the whole, do not believe in purgatory.
"Lastly, you stated that you believe that no one can go straight to heaven upon death. Where do you believe they go?"
Because a person is made up of 3 parts there's it divides accordig to scripture. I believe the body decays. The breath, spirit, goes back to God where it came from. That means there is no soul (because it requires a body and spirit to make up a soul)As I stated, the brain needs breath to function. Our brain, wihout life, without breath, doesn't think. There are no consciousness. It is made up of flesh and will decay, God created it that way. Again, at death our spirit-( which is breath,life), goes back to God. It belongs to him. (2 Cor. Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord. We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.")
So we all go to God when we die,(our spirits)and stay there until the day God releases our spirit to reunite it with our new body, which will be the end of mortal time as we know it "We will be changed, in the twinkling of an eye. This corruptible shall put on incorruptible." Then judgement. Then eternity. To those who die it will be as if they've just closed their eyes when they are called
from the grave to reunite with their bodies.
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