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Date Posted: 03:35:50 08/08/07 Wed
Author: Joan
Author Host/IP: ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net / 68.0.253.131
Subject: Saved by faith alone?
Do you believe that you are justified through faith alone?
Joan
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Re: Saved by faith alone? -- catie, 06:23:47 08/08/07 Wed [1] (h32.237.213.151.ip.alltel.net/151.213.237.32)
Ah the big question! I was waiting for it. LOL Once again that's a biggie that separates Catholics from Protestants.
What else could it be? None of my works would ever be great enough to earn salvation. What could I possibly do that would merit me eternal life God when my nature is sinful? Nothing I could do would be good enough to earn my salvation. That's why Christ himself paid the price. :) That doesn't mean that I am free to live the way I choose. That means I am bought with a price. As Paul said, "those that are free in Christ are free indeed". We are not bound by traditions or rules, but we lovingly and willingly obey his law and do his will.
I base my belief of justification by faith on Ephesians 1:
"...But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."
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Catie and all................ -- Barb, 09:41:33 08/08/07 Wed [1] (clgrtnt7-port-29.dial.telus.net/161.184.52.29)
I did not mean to stir a hornet's nest and I did not mean to offend anyone...believe me.
You see what happens when one has different religious backgrounds and points of view.
I should have refrained from replying to this post and I apologize if I angered anyone or made anyone feel upset by what I said.
I did not say what I did out of disrespect, it was only my personal feelings and point of view.
I believe we have to be accountable for our own actions and faith will not forgive us everything.
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Barb -- Catie, 13:29:21 08/08/07 Wed [1] (h32.237.213.151.ip.alltel.net/151.213.237.32)
You certainly did not offend me. I respect yours and everyone's else's opinion's here. :) I realize that what I believe is my own opinion. I certainly don't expect everyone to take hold of my personal beliefs. HOWEVER, I am right! *hee*hee (okay that's a joke y'all) LOL
Will you allow me to add this one thing? Just by way of understanding me: If I understand what you were saying about fear, and I might have misunderstood, I want to say I too believe we are not to live out our lives in fear. Some "HOLY" people, churches, denominations, et al, use the fear-factor to scare folks in to living "holy" lives. (ie:Hell, fire and brim-stone stuff) I see God as a merciful and loving father. I genuinely love him too. I don't believe for one second he is eager to find fault with me, (how could he? I'm adorable...*hee*hee) or standing over me making sure I'm crossing every T and dotting every i! I don't live by "rules" that a church expects neither do I do anything out of fear, (respect & love yes, fear no). I do all things out of joy and peace that he has given to me. Sure I'm certainly making every human effort to live according to his word but I'm not stuck in a box worrying. I long to keep fellowship with him and that keeps my phone line open to him. Not fear. I've accepted by faith that God exists and that he is tending to my every need, spiritual included. That then frees me from all fear. I am free to be me, but to be me in a new attitude, as a new "creature", geniunely longing to do good. I live by faith, not fear. I'm doing my part and I'm accepting in good faith he is doing his while I live this good life he has given to me. :)
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We are absolutely on the same page, Catie........ -- Barb, 15:48:43 08/08/07 Wed [1] (clgrtnt7-port-29.dial.telus.net/161.184.52.29)
our words may be different, and our way of getting there may be different, but the end result is pretty much the same. Thank you for your good words, always so graceful, kind and thoughtful. What I most love about you though, is your total lack of arrogance! lol
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I do a little of both. :-) -- Joan, 05:18:50 08/09/07 Thu [1] (ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net/68.0.253.131)
"neither do I do anything out of fear, (respect & love yes, fear no)."
For me it's a little of both. The thought of doing something so bad that God would get really, really mad at me is a fearful thought. I don't want to disappoint the one who made me.
I act out of love and respect, and I don't act (sin) out of fear of offending God and risking damnation.
I think the Act of Contrition says it best.
"Oh, my god, I am heartily sorry for having offended thee.
I detest all my sins because I fear the loss of Heaven and the pains of Hell, but most of all because they offend you, my God, who are all good and deserving of all my love."
So for me it's a little of both. Fear isn't the motivating factor in what I do, but it is part of not acting inappropriately.
Joan
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No way! -- Barb, 07:49:52 08/08/07 Wed [1] (clgrtnt7-port-29.dial.telus.net/161.184.52.29)
That to me is a very cunning way which allows the fear factor work to against us. Enough said. I appreciate the the religious differences, but I do not buy into it, even for a second.
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"to work" not "work to" (sorry) -- Barb, 07:50:39 08/08/07 Wed [1] (clgrtnt7-port-29.dial.telus.net/161.184.52.29)
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Re: No way! -- Joan, 05:35:30 08/09/07 Thu [1] (ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net/68.0.253.131)
We agree. In the NT we're told that faith without works is dead. In other places in the Bible it talks about things we do not being able to save us. But in those instances, it's talking about the OT stuff--circumscision, dietary law, etc.
In the NT we're told that we have to do this and that to be a Christian--feed the hungry, clothe the poor, love your brother, etc. It's not enough to say that you believe, feel that you believe, be happy about your faith in God. The NT says that we're required to act on that faith, which we have through grace.
Joan
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Ignited the Protestant Reformation ! -- Neysa, 10:27:53 08/08/07 Wed [1] (user-2inikfh.dialup.mindspring.com/165.121.81.241)
Justification by faith alone, more than any other truth, ignited the Protestant Reformation.
I believe what the Catholic Church teaches that a person is justified by not only faith but by baptism. Baptism purifies us takes away the original sin we were born with, making us a new person. We were born with the original sin on our soul, through baptism we became a temple of the Holy Spirit. Now after baptism we start our life pure in the grace of god and with a clean soul.
It is our free will to keep our soul pure in order to have salvation with God.
We could not do this without baptism and then as we grow older through, our faith.
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Barb............ -- Neysa, 13:54:16 08/08/07 Wed [1] (user-2inik17.dialup.mindspring.com/165.121.80.39)
Everyone has opinions, and not always the same. No reason to apologize. It would be a peaceful world if we all agreed. But also rather dull.
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Thank you for your sweet, understanding and generous reply, Neysa! :-) -- Barb, 15:45:14 08/08/07 Wed [1] (clgrtnt7-port-29.dial.telus.net/161.184.52.29)
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Your Welcome, Barb ! -- Neysa, 16:12:33 08/08/07 Wed [1] (user-38lcimr.dialup.mindspring.com/209.86.74.219)
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Joan -- Catie, 04:01:40 08/09/07 Thu [1] (h32.237.213.151.ip.alltel.net/151.213.237.32)
Since you posed the question I'm going to ask, what are your thoughts on this question?
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Re: Joan -- Joan, 05:31:17 08/09/07 Thu [1] (ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net/68.0.253.131)
I think we're justified by grace.
Faith, like the Bible says, is dead without works. So saying that we're justified by faith alone is a mistake, IMO.
Joan
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