Can it be that we agree? -- Catholic Friends Forum

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Date Posted: 11:31:36 07/29/07 Sun
Author: Joan
Author Host/IP: ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net / 68.0.253.131
Subject:

Can it be that we agree?
In reply to: Catie 's message, "Re: Does what you do count?" on 09:29:20 07/29/07 Sun

We don't agree on Baptism, but we agree on sin and assured (lack of) salvation.

If we always have the ability to turn away from God, no one can ever be assured that he is saved.

"(I think) He,(Baptist) believes if someone is "sinning" then they were never truly saved. He says if you have to continually ask for forgiveness then you are saying it wasn't good enough to "take" the first time"

That, respectfully, doesn't make sense to me. Everyone sins, if not in what you do, they in what you haven't done. If not in what you've said, then in what you've thought. Maybe your action *looked* honorable to anyone looking at it from the outside, but your true motivation is sinful.

Who among us isn't a sinner? Who lives their entire life, even if they only live a year, without sinning?

It's not that those who confess their sins think that the first Confession didn't take place. We aren't confessing the same sin (instance of sin) continuously. We're confession new occasions of sin. It might be the same kind of sin (searing, missing church), if we have a problem w/ one kind of sin, but we're confessing because we've done it again, not because we confessed it before and don't belive that God's forgiveness "stuck".

And that's what makes me wonder about asking for forgiveness in advance. Do people who beleive as your father does believe that they actually don't sin?! I don't think so. I think that they think that once they've confessed to being a sinner, it covers all future sins.

What's your take on it.

IMO, you can't confess ahead of time. That implies that you do intend to sin again, and that would make that confession invalid in the first place. You can't confess and be forgiven if while confessing you plan to keep on sinning.

That brings up one complaint about Catholicism that we hear all the time. That Catholics think they can go to Confession and keep right on doing the same thing. In reality, a sacrmental confession involves a full examination of conscious first. When we go to Confession, we get to the chruch early to kneel and pray and to really think about what we need to confess to God. Confession involves the honest effort to not commit that sin again.

So, someone who is living with a boyfriend can't confess her sin and go to Communion, if she intends to go home to her boyfriend. That isn't a "good confession".

And, because we (both of us) don't agree w/ confessing in advance, she's not "covered" for living w/ the boyfriend in the future--she's not forgiven for continuing to sin.

And that's what I don't get about the thinking that you can be assured of your salvation. Do they think that they are "covered" by whatever confessions they've made in the past? Do they think their actions count? Is it enough to merely say "I believe"? Don't their sins matter? Don't they know that they do?

Joan

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Replies:

[> [> [> [> [> Joan -- Catie, 08:49:26 07/30/07 Mon [1] (h166.243.213.151.ip.alltel.net/151.213.243.166)

I think the "once saved..." theory must include any future sins. I'm not sure though. I do know that my dad said that he has asked forgiveness since he was "Saved" because I've asked him. So it's confusing to me. ??? I don't know their theology enough to really comment I guess. I don't mean to do that denomination an injustice by my lack of knowledge.

My brain is too worn today to give it much thought to be honest. I need to rest a bit and I'll hopefully be back around the end of the week sometime. With bells on and raring to go! :)

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