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Date Posted: 16:28:30 03/23/06 Thu
Author: 23
Subject: People of all religions unite!!
in their distrust of people of no religion:
http://www.ur.umn.edu/FMPro?-db=releases&-lay=web&-format=umnnewsreleases/releasesdetail.html&ID=2816&-Find
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- Jes, 16:37:30 03/23/06 Thu [1]
Normally I won't even call myself an athiest just because - Hey, I could be wrong, you know. Maybe there is a tooth fairy. My reality is MY reality and everyone's reality is different which throws the term reality out the window, doesn't it? It's all relative. It's all arguable.
But how can people be afraid of people who put faith in themselves rather than some "being" they blindly trust? I think religion can be good - and that some people need that structure - but maybe it should be taught with tolerance. Judge not lest you be judged.
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- Jes, 16:37:35 03/23/06 Thu [1]
Normally I won't even call myself an athiest just because - Hey, I could be wrong, you know. Maybe there is a tooth fairy. My reality is MY reality and everyone's reality is different which throws the term reality out the window, doesn't it? It's all relative. It's all arguable.
But how can people be afraid of people who put faith in themselves rather than some "being" they blindly trust? I think religion can be good - and that some people need that structure - but maybe it should be taught with tolerance. Judge not lest you be judged.
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- amadaun, 18:25:31 03/23/06 Thu [1]
“It seems most Americans believe that diversity is fine, as long as every one shares a common ‘core’ of values that make them trustworthy—and in America, that ‘core’ has historically been religious,”
Ain't that a joke!! The clergy make up the largest single group of sex offenders and paedophiles. [Australia, 1996]
Trustworthy my ass!!
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- chico781, 01:07:47 03/24/06 Fri [1]
You know, it's messed up that people "rank" others. We're all children of God, even if some people don't believe in Him. We're all created equal.
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- amadaun, 19:23:32 03/25/06 Sat [1]
Maybe it's just that everyone needs someone to hate. So the aethists are bearing the brunt of it.
Like a group of kids at school who hang together and exclude newcomers, religions need to have someone to despise and point the finger at?
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- Robert, 05:50:27 03/27/06 Mon [1]
I can't get down with organized religion. I think that perhaps one of the big mysteries of life is that religion is false, and that the kingdom of God is right here, right now...only we're too caught up in our limited view of the world to be able to do anything about it.
I've mentioned on this board before that I think dark matter is spirit energy, since we cannot measure it...just as we cannot measure our own spirit energy...and it's out there in the universe en masse. I also think that if in your spiritual form you are limitless, it woudl stand to reason that the real punishment of the soul is to be trappped in a fixed, human form...down here wallowing in the trough of shit that we call life.
I have some different opinions I suppose. I'm not bitter about things...just don't see how one could hope to attain heaven in a place like this. The excess and abuse that hapen on the most fundamental levels make it almost impossible if you choose to believe any religious doctrine.
I'm not saying that I reject religioon, rather that I embrace all religions because I don't know who's got it right. I'd hope that somewhere, someone has the straight dope...perhaps the buddhists since they never seem to be balls deep in war and death.
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- Jes, 08:31:04 03/27/06 Mon [1]
Rob - your dark energy theory reminds me of Anne Rice's Memnock the Devil. That was a controversial book in it's day because the lead character fights with the devil for his soul (sort of). Anyhow, the lost spirits that no longer remember who or what they are float around the world in a chorus of scariness - that's what reminded me of that one. She can be so visual, and reading about them I just saw a dirty grey mass of spirits swirling about reaching for any reaction at all.
Part of the reason I can't go to church (besides that I live in "sin" which is arguable on the very Bible they read) is because in some churches they spend half of their time explaining why they are right and everyone else is wrong. Tell a Southern Baptist that you're Catholic or Jehovah's Witness once and see if I'm wrong.
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- 23, 10:00:27 03/27/06 Mon [1]
My two cents:
Religions are generally formed by "enlightened" beings - Jesus, Buddha, Lao-tse, etc. They have, through circumstance or self-motivation, learned a Way to be at peace with the universe, have limitless empathy for their fellow beings, etc. They have attempted to pass this knowledge on to the rest of us unenlightened beings, to disastrous results.
Christianity, when looked at through an "enlightened" lens, is a beautiful religion based on peace, love, understanding, forgiveness, tolerance, etc. When the same religion is overlayed on the pattern of an "unenlightened" person, that person grabs on to the worst parts of the same religion - the judgement, anger, preachiness, "us vs. them" mentality, etc.
Basically, the ideas held by Christianity, Islam, etc. aren't BAD ideas most of the time, they are just twisted by the imperfect people who use them as a way to justify bad behavior. Year after year, century after century of imperfect people running those religions causes them to steer further and further from their initial message of love, peace, hope, etc. So we are left with this tool that has been honed to divide rather than to bring us together.
Sadly, most people seem to be weak. That weakness causes them to grab more strongly onto fear than love, which causes all kinds of stupid shit.
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- noslave, 11:51:34 03/27/06 Mon [1]
That's at least 4 cents. Good sense though.
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- amadaun, 19:00:11 03/27/06 Mon [1]
"They have attempted to pass this knowledge on to the rest of us unenlightened beings, to disastrous results."
Not always disastrous results.
Only when we stop thinking for ourselves,and expanding on what they have shown us.
If we think that, of all the profits sent to enlighten us, only one could be 'correct' .
And the idea, that out of all their teachings, only that fragment which has been preserved in certain books should be practised and taught.
~~I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church.~~
Thomas Paine
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- chico781, 00:59:08 03/28/06 Tue [1]
Well, I agree that a lot of times religion is ruined by human beings but so is everything at some point in time. I think people are always looking for a perfect church to go to. They look for a church that is going to serve them. This is a huge problem. Church should be a way for us to serve God, not the other way around. It is a tool. People who look for the perfect church are always going to be disappointed. You know, I have met a lot of people who don't go to church because they say that they feel like they can praise God outside of it. Who's to say they're wrong? Yet, I know that going to church has helped me focus on how to serve God and I know that I couldn't do the same if I didn't attend church. Obviously this may not be the same for some people. I'm a Catholic and I believe that Jesus left us a blueprint on how to follow him. Yes, I fall short always but I do try. I know that I will always fail because I am human and a sinner but I do try. I think that other religions bring a lot to the table in terms of how to lead your life but I believe that Jesus is the Messiah.
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- Jes, 08:30:02 03/28/06 Tue [1]
Anyone else keep reading this thread as "People of all religions untie?" LOL!
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- 23, 10:00:28 03/28/06 Tue [1]
"Not always disastrous results."
I suppose you're right. But I'm of the opinion that the current and historical negatives by far outweigh the positives. Sure, there's a Mother Theresa or a MLK who crop up here or there, but for every one of them there are a dozen lunatics who start wars for those same religions.
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- Gren, 13:14:19 03/28/06 Tue [1]
I have a funny story that has nothing to do with this really. Well Utah is full of mormons. Duh. They come to your door every weekend morning to talk about god with you. So the other day they knock, my bf looks through the window and screams " it's the mormons!" So they decide that my father in law should tell them we're a catholic household. He's wearing a shirt with aliens having sex in all kind of positions and it says on it: "The aliens are coming"...He opens the door wearing that, the poor mormons are staring! I'm sure they won't come back lol.
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- Jes, 13:20:57 03/28/06 Tue [1]
That's the 1 religion I do have a problem with. I was watching a special on poligomy the other day. I know not all Mormans practice poligomy, but the ones who do are usually on welfare because they can't afford their 4 wives and 19 kids. This show really showed them in a very very negative way (men marrying their 14 year old niece, etc.) and I'm sure it's not all that way, but what an irresponsible practice that's costing the country millions - especially the taxpayers where you are. Something needs done about all that. And every female in this country, I don't care what religion she is - deserves an education.
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- gren, 13:27:56 03/28/06 Tue [1]
have you seen the new show " big Love" on HBO? it's happening in SLC and it's a family of mormons. He has 3 wives and like 12 kids lol, it's pretty funny. Very few mormons practice polygamy these days. Those who do are in the country, leaving like recluse. People think they are child molestors and they are right. Those girls are so young and having babies! Otherwise they are very nice. We have nothing in common. They can't drink nor smoke, happy hour does not exist here...it's weird for that. they don't know why i'm not drinking right now, they must think i'm trying to convert lol
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- taurus, 13:32:47 03/28/06 Tue [1]
There is a whole town (in the middle of nowhere) in British Columbia, Canada right now that is being investigated by the RCMP because of polygamy. They are all Mormons and some of them spread it all the way from Omaha to Canada. They went to the school and there where 30 kids but only like 4 seperate families. They are not only too young to marry, it's incestuous.
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- tg, 13:33:51 03/28/06 Tue [1]
PS. I want to watch that show, I've heard about it. When's it on?
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- 23, 15:02:18 03/28/06 Tue [1]
I wish those fucking Jehova's Witnesses or Mormom missionaries would come to my house and try to convert me. I love a good debate. Maybe I could get them to question the meaning of their existence. That's always fun.
(pretty sure our barking dogs scare them off)
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- Jes, 15:08:30 03/28/06 Tue [1]
I'm usually really kind to the JW - I take their book and read it. I think they think they're doing something good - even though in all reality if I stepped into their church they'd throw me out within an hour, surely. Why don't their churches ever have windows?
I've never had a Morman come to my door. I've had Baptists come to my door and tell my kid they'd give him a candy bar if he'd come to church.
Cub Scouts was through a Methodist church (it's in their charter to sponser a pack). But they never bothered with me. They were very nice. Except for the one that ripped my boys off outta $9,000 they earned!
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- taurus, 15:10:20 03/28/06 Tue [1]
The Jehovahs actually mark down in a journal who talked to them or took a book or magazine. They also mark down if you have a dog. They think their service is a reflection of Christs work.
They are the ones who believe if you are not a Jehovah, you will spend eternity dead. They believe they will be reserected and will be amognst the animals also. I told them I would rather be dead, then spend eternity with a bunch of JW's. They don't come here anymore, but go to the neighbors all the time, and she's amn old lush.
The Church Of Later Day Saints are Mormons right. I sometimes feel guilty, telling them to go away. They have such sad eyes. LOL
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- taurus, 15:13:15 03/28/06 Tue [1]
My sons in Scouts too Jes. It's based as a Christian organization.
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- Jes, 15:16:09 03/28/06 Tue [1]
Wouldn't it be fun to actually show up at their church, just once?!?! And then list out all the things you do that are wrong and see how long they keep you? LOL!
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- gren, 15:20:56 03/28/06 Tue [1]
Yes Taurus, they are called LDS...Well I will let them try with me but I will tell them straight up I'm not giving up the wine. I know they can't accept me that way lol. What's wrong with wine, isn't it the blood of JC?
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- Jes, 15:20:16 03/28/06 Tue [1]
Yeah - I know. And you know never ONCE was I cornered about my living situation or anything - and I was a leader for 3 years! That's why I'm saying they were very nice.
Cub/Boy Scouts is a great organization for any kid, Christain or not - even with the values incorporated. It's just hard to get a modern boy to stay in there! My Cub Scouts (babies) crossed over into Boy Scouts (where there are no woman!) just this year. Anyhow, even if you aren't a Christian, it brings a great opportunity for discussion with your child about Christianity and tolerance. I saw in the Webelos book they had to earn a religion badge.
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- taurus, 15:30:54 03/28/06 Tue [1]
Scouts is a Great organization and that's what I like is the values they teach. He's a cub now, but here they start out as Beavers.
My kids are in Catholic school and I noticed they are more informed about certain things than Public Scholl kids. They actually know why we celebrate Christmas and Easter. It's not about getting presents or the easter bunny. I just think it's factual rather than not being able to learn about it, because a public system is for everyone.
I'm not religious at all, but I did go to church last year and I was so pissed off by the mass. The priest was talking about divorce and when my parents divorced they wanted my mother to get a anullment after a 15 yr marriage. If she did that my brother an I would be considered illegitimate. Does that make sense, so yeah I would have liked to have pointed that out to them.
You just gotta take the good with the bad.
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- Jes, 15:47:22 03/28/06 Tue [1]
Beavers? What is that - Kindergarten or something? Our start as Tigers in 1st grade and our whole district must not have Beavers because I've never seen lit on it! In fact, 3 of my anywhere from 8 to 12 boys got a special award at crossover for starting at the beginning as Tigers and then going through the 2nd year Webelos ('We'll be Loyal Scouts' in case anyone wonders what that stands for). I wish I could have had them in kindergarten! That would have been fun!
My son hated it - said it was too much like school and wanted to quit. I was den leader from their Tiger year (taking over for a lady who just quit showing up and took the meeting dues with her and another den leader who drank before every meeting so much that you could smell it on him) through their Bear year. I liked it - my son hated it. I figured if I couldn't lead my own son through it, I had no right to try to lead these other boys through and left the den to my assistant who has done a fantastic job. I miss volunteering. :)
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- 23, 16:10:14 03/28/06 Tue [1]
I was a Tiger Cub, Cub Scout, Webelo and Boy Scout.
My mom was a den mother and my dad was a troop leader.
I loved the scouts as a kid. Then I moved and our new troop sucked balls. I quit shortly after.
I loved the camping trips and also really dug when we made the cars, boats and planes to race. I loved carving that balsa wood.
(did that sound dirty?)
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- Jes, 16:15:11 03/28/06 Tue [1]
Well now you may have a chance to step up and give back! You'll get to do all those sorts of things before you know it!
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- Jes, 16:16:11 03/28/06 Tue [1]
Can you remember the Cub Scout Oath?
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- taurus, 16:25:06 03/28/06 Tue [1]
Yes Beavers get to start at 5 yrs and do it for 2 yrs then they becomes Cubs and then just Scouts.
I guess it's a Cdn thingy for obvious reasons. They do play games and do campouts too. Yeah, we built the airplane.
My daughter is still a brownie then she just becomes a guide.
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- 23, 16:25:59 03/28/06 Tue [1]
I might be able to remember the Cub Scout Oath.
Something about God and Country...
If you were to get me started, I bet I could finish it.
The Boy Scout one was about being trustworthy, kind, etc., right?
It's been awhile....
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- 23, 16:31:01 03/28/06 Tue [1]
I think I might have it...
I promise to do my duty to God and my country something something something...
forgetit
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- Jes, 16:27:49 03/28/06 Tue [1]
I can't remember the Boy Scout one - I started priming them to remember it, but must not have done a good job.
Here - Cub Scout...
I, Nathan, promise to do my best....
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- 23, 16:43:59 03/28/06 Tue [1]
...to do my duty to god and my country.
and then something about helping other people.
that's all I got. I've been putting too much green in the brain-hole.
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- taurus, 16:46:34 03/28/06 Tue [1]
My son wanted to quit and he even told his scout leader he was. He missed a week then the next week he was telling me it was time to go to Scouts. I guess he missed it, it's all about commeradiere (sp) and fellowship. Boys really enjoy that.
Do the Scout leaders in the States take on names like Rusty or Hawkeye, etc?
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- tg, 16:48:32 03/28/06 Tue [1]
ps. Sorry I forgot, The girl guides start out as Sparks, then Brownies, then Guides.
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- Jes, 16:49:34 03/28/06 Tue [1]
And to obey the law of the pack!
I wasn't a very good leader though. One time I thought we'd have this spiderweb relay where two boys are supposed to take a spool of string and wrap it around each other back to back like a spider web. Well, I didn't have a big budget and couldn't find cheap string. SO....I found a pack of masking tape at the dollar store. And I thought that'd be ok. The smaller of the two in the only group I couldn't put together size-wise nearly quit breathing!
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- 23, 17:08:58 03/28/06 Tue [1]
Couldn't find cheap string?
Where were you looking? Ye Olde House of Golden Twine? Designer String Unlimited? Strings of the Stars?
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- tg, 17:34:42 03/28/06 Tue [1]
Yeah, like you couldn't find any string at the dollar store. you just won't to choke that kid.
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- amadaun, 19:04:45 03/28/06 Tue [1]
"Religions are generally formed by "enlightened" beings - Jesus, Buddha, Lao-tse, etc. "
Did these guys actually form religions though, or were the religions formed by those who came after?
Sure, they all taught ways to live, but did they actually say, "You must do it MY way and only MY way?"
I think that was added by those who picked up the threads later, and wanted a way to control people. In the bible, for example, there are so many inconsistencies,I believe that it has had major tampering,and that not much of the original message of love, compassion and caring still exists.
The ten commandments say thou shalt not kill, but then passages in the Bible condone killing as long as it is people of another religion or race. Or if you're people that pissed God off for whatever reason.
"... But I'm of the opinion that the current and historical negatives by far outweigh the positives. Sure, there's a Mother Theresa or a MLK who crop up here or there, but for every one of them there are a dozen lunatics who start wars for those same religions"
Exactly my point. It is not the teachings that are the problem - its the Religion that is the problem. The fanatical devotion to texts, the inability to understand those outside of bounds of the particular religion they are entrenched in. Religion is exclusive, by its very nature. It sets up an 'us' and 'them' mentality.
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- 23, 23:25:00 03/28/06 Tue [1]
Well, they were teachers of sorts, weren't they? And don't all teachers attempt to pass knowledge on to their students? They may not have called it religion, but I do think those spritual leaders where trying to start something. I'm not at all faulting them for anything. I'm just saying that the minds of most people can not digest "enlightened" thought for whatever reason. It is then misunderstood and perverted by the masses who (inadvertently?) use it as a tool to retard our spiritual growth as a species.
"It is not the teachings that are the problem - its the Religion that is the problem."
I would say yes and no. There are teachings found in the Bible and the Koran and the Torah that ARE a big part of the problem. Teachings that have been used to justify horrendous acts of inhumanity.
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- chico781, 10:36:38 03/29/06 Wed [1]
Actually, a lot of these "enlightened" people did say that you must do it this way. I really don't know if in other religions they tampered with what these people but I don't believe that's the case for Christianity. The Gospels were written very soon after the death of Christ. Not even 100 years had past before they were written. This means that there still were people around who could have said that what the Gospels say is inaccurate. In terms of Jesus' miracles, even non-Christians back then never said that He did not do the things the New Testament says He did. They said that it was sorcery or something else but they do not refute the fact that He performed great acts.
Now, that is not to say that religion has not been used to perform terrible acts throughout history but this is because these people have misunderstood the religion and perverted it. It's not because the religion itself is perverted.
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- 23, 13:41:18 03/29/06 Wed [1]
chico - I'm sure you've read the bulk of the bible, if not the whole thing. You can't honestly tell me that there isn't some fucked up shit in there - Jehova killing thousands of people, him helping the Israelites kill thousands of people, etc. There's racism in there, there's sexism in there. There's all kinds of shit in there that runs contrary to a healthy, happy society.
And the gospels contradict each other on numerous occasions. They can't ALL be correct - so even 60 years after Christ's death they was already at least some deviation from his teachings.
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- Jes, 14:02:25 03/29/06 Wed [1]
2 things not in the Bible that are often assumed:
There is nothing in the Bible indicating that pre-marital sex is wrong.
There is also nothing in the Bible to indicate marraige the way we define it today.
:p
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- taurus, 14:28:41 03/29/06 Wed [1]
I'm not too sure if there is anything in the bible about pre-marital sex is wrong, but adultery in the bible is wrong. I'm pretty sure it's the sex in the marital union being broken.
There's just too much in the bible.
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- chico781, 14:57:46 03/29/06 Wed [1]
You know, there are a lot of things in the Old Testament that Jesus came to change. You can't just read parts of the Bible and assume that you can live by just what that says. I am in no way saying that I have read the entire Bible. To be honest, I'm just now getting started in terms of really being educated about it.
About the Gospels disagreeing with each other, there are ways to explain these differences and that does not make one more correct than the other. In terms of this, I really recommend you read The Case for Christ or even Jesus Under Fire. Both books do a good job of explaining how the New Testament is an accurate description of Jesus' life.
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- 23, 15:07:42 03/29/06 Wed [1]
"You know, there are a lot of things in the Old Testament that Jesus came to change. "
Yeah, according to Christians. I know a whole lot of Jewish people who feel differently. But even the New Testament was filled with its share of problems - sexism, homophobia, etc.
I don't mean to get into specifics too deeply here, as it's a bit of a dead-end road, but I was just trying to make the point that us weak humans rarely put religion to good use. We usually end up twisting it into something harmful that corrodes the relationships between us.
I still stand by my presumption that we'd be better off without it in many, many ways.
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- chico781, 15:41:04 03/29/06 Wed [1]
I agree that there are a lot of examples where religion has been put to the wrong use. I don't refute that one bit but as a whole, religion does serve its purpose if practiced properly.
Of course Jewish people will refute what Jesus came to say. They don't believe that he's the Messiah.
I'm not sure but I know that there are a lot of people out there who don't call themselves Christians, Muslims, Jewish, etc but who believe that God does exist. I just hope that these people will take the time to really investigate on their own who God really is. I know that I am biased on this but I believe that if they did, they'd find that Jesus is the answer. That's just what I believe and I respect the fact that there are many of you who will totally disagree with me. God's greatest gift is free will, my friends.
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- 23, 16:50:38 03/29/06 Wed [1]
I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree, chico. I don't see myself out-debating the Lord and I don't see you doing what 18 years of Catholic upbringing couldn't (convince me of the existence of god).
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- chico781, 17:03:05 03/29/06 Wed [1]
No doubt. It seems like you already have your mind made up and it takes an open mind to learn. It's cool, bro. I have a lot of friends who don't believe in God and that in no way makes them lesser friends.
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- 23, 17:21:24 03/29/06 Wed [1]
I would argue that my open mind is what keeps me from believing in god. (And I've probably learned more about "god" than 95% of christians, so I don't think lack of learning is the issue).
But whatever, I know I'm in the minority on this one and I'm OK with that.
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- chico781, 17:48:05 03/29/06 Wed [1]
I meant no disrespect, Nathan. I know of a lot of people like you who have honestly taken an interest in trying to find an answer to these questions, unlike a lot of Christians who have not done so. It's obviously a matter of faith. I can respect both points of view.
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- amadaun, 19:47:40 03/29/06 Wed [1]
~~~It is then misunderstood and perverted by the masses who (inadvertently?) use it as a tool to retard our spiritual growth as a species.
Not so much misunderstood, but perverted and distorted. The constrictions of religion prevent movement towards enlightenment because they discourage self discovery.
And yes, it is a powerful tool- to control people.
~ There are teachings found in the Bible and the Koran and the Torah that ARE a big part of the problem. Teachings that have been used to justify horrendous acts of inhumanity.
How many of the teachings recorded in these books are genuine? How many were added in by ghost authors to appease the rulers/head of church of the day?
IMO, its how messages of love can sit side by side with hateful directives, in these books.
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- amadaun, 19:58:39 03/29/06 Wed [1]
Chico, with respect, you are guilty of the very thing you accuse Twan of- not having an open mind.
~~I know that I am biased on this but I believe that if they did, they'd find that Jesus is the answer.
You are ready to defend the authenticity of the Gospels, because you are so sure they are correct.
Check out this site on Bible inconsistencies. Its an eye opener.....
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html
Like this little gem-
GE 17:1, 35:11, 1CH 29:11-12, LK 1:37 God is omnipotent. Nothing is impossible with (or for) God.
JG 1:19 Although God was with Judah, together they could not defeat the plainsmen because the latter had iron chariots.
bugger!! iron chariots, huh?
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- chico781, 23:38:59 03/29/06 Wed [1]
I did not accuse Twan of not having an open mind. I understand you looking at it that way and that is why I apologized to Nathan. He has no faith and that is what I was getting at. It's definitely not the same thing as having an open mind. I know that the man has an open mind and I praised him for it.
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- chico781, 00:06:42 03/30/06 Thu [1]
You know, I really don't dig that site because all it has is just one liners from the Bible. Anyone can take one sentence out of a book and take it out of context. That's exactly what the people who use the Bible to commit atrocities do, which is exactly what Nathan was talking about and I agree with.
Judges 1:19
And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.
Now here's what the site you suggested says:
Although God was with Judah, together they could not defeat the plainsmen because the latter had iron chariots.
I see a problem with this because by what the website says, God was physically with Judah, which is not the case. If it was to mean that God somehow failed, why would it be included in the Bible which is supposed to honor God?
Like I told Nathan, I respect people who actually look into this stuff because I believe it's important to do so. I don't want to believe in something that is not true so I am actually studying it. I'll be honest with all of you when I say that I just getting on it but I am trying.
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- taurus, 08:18:40 03/30/06 Thu [1]
People can read the newspaper and take it out of context, so no surprise that the "word of god" can be misunderstood.
~~~ but taking a piece from the bible like the chariots thingy, without the entire content shouldn't be judged either. Why would I say that one little piece is weird (ofcourse chariots are weird to us) without knowing where it came from as a whole. That's not logical.
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- amadaun, 19:12:33 03/30/06 Thu [1]
Chico, I apologize if I misunderstood what you said to Twan about having an open mind. Reading back, I see it can be interpreted either way.
Re- the Infidels.org site, I don't see what problem you have with the site, because they have links for every verse quoted, so it can be read in context.
I think the meaning is clear.
We are told God is omnipotent [lol, i almost typed impotent there] Then, we are told God and Judah couldn't defeat the plainsmen.
As omnipotent means having unlimited power, and of course God is believed to be all powerful, how could he not be able to defeat a few plainsmen in iron chariots?
From the King James Version-~~ And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.~~
It doesn't say in what form the Lord was with Judah,physically or spiritually. But they couldn't win the battle.
Everyone knows the commandment- Thou shalt not kill. But in Exodus 32:27
~~~And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.~~~
Hmmm, sounds like killing to me.........
2 Kings 19:35
~~And it came to pass that night, that the angel of the LORD went out, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians an hundred fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses.
This would make God a hypocrite.
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- chrys, 23:05:41 03/30/06 Thu [1]
wow, lots to reply to...
re: proselytizing - i hate that shit! i had a roommate/landlord who grew up JW and talks about how much it isolated her, like in school situations, because there were SO many activities she and her bros and sis's (there were seven or eight kids in her family in all) couldn't participate in, that it really made them stand out.
i've only gotten bugged once on the island by religious people, they were mormons and it was like this one week they were everywhere. the second time they tried to give me a flyer "about a video about families" i told them i already had one of their flyers and they gave me a different flyer on the book of mormon instead.. i sorta felt bad for them, they looked like lost boys.
i have to tell this story though - when i wen tto school in arizona, there were mormons everywhere, and recovering mormons everywhere. i had two friends who were both recovering mormons and both bisexual. one time we were in phoenix on a sunday before we drove back up to flagstaff, and they wanted to go into all the mormon churches wearing their t-shirts from our school's LGBT group. i declined to go with them, and they got to chicken to actually do it anyway. they were going to go in and yell gay pride and run back out, like in the middle of the service. what we did do though, was drive around the parking lots BLASTING marilyn manson, and APC's judith.
now THAT part was fun!
more later...
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- 23, 08:55:26 03/31/06 Fri [1]
amadaun - I suppose it goes without saying that I agree with you. For some reason, I've lost some of my desire to debate this issue with christians because the debate always drives down the same street that ends in a wall called faith.
I will play the christian and respond to your very valid points.
"God works in mysterious ways. We aren't meant to understand why he does what he does or did what he did. It must have been a part of his master plan to allow the Israelites to fail against the iron chariots and he must have been teaching a larger lesson when he told them to kill all those people. It's just not possible for our human minds to grasp the breadth of his purpose."
Can't argue with that, can we?
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Re: People of all religions unite!! -- chico781, 11:09:52 03/31/06 Fri [1]
Amadaun, it's cool, man. People misunderstand each other all the time.
In regards to that verse that we're looking at, Judah had been defeating everyone that he met against, thus explaining why it would be written that God was with Judah. Judah was still human so he could fail, as he did against those who had the iron chariots. God still has to allow us to fail. Where would our faith be if we always got what we desired? Would it truly be faith then? I don't think so.
Now, I am in no way a theologist so I don't feel like I'm the best at being able to defend my faith, yet I will try.
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