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Date Posted: 15:59:14 02/28/06 Tue
Author: chico781
Subject: Advice
I'm going through a lot right now and I really am in need of some advice as to what I should do. Here's my situation:
In September I got engaged to the girl I've been with for 6 years. We were very happy and we were planning our life together. I bought a house at the end of October for us to live in once we got married. At the same time, she began to get severely depressed. She had suicidal thoughts and it totally affected the way she could love me. I totally understood this and I stood by her. She went to therapy and eventually even got on medication. During one of her visits to the therapist she was adviced that maybe we should take some time apart because she had an issue with not really knowing who she was since she never was alone through college. However, the therapist told her that the number one priority was her depression and then she could deal with these other issues. Right before Christmas her therapist's husband got a job out of state and she moved with him. Her therapist insisted that she needed to continue with her therapy as did I. Yet, she never was able to get ahold of anyone because it was right before Christmas and all the therapists available at that office did not have anything open at the time. Christmas came and three days later she told me that she was leaving me so she could take care of the issues she had. She told me that she did not love herself so it was impossible for her to love me the way I deserved to be loved. Even though it was so hard to see the love of my life leave me, I supported her because I knew that for her to feel right, she had to do this. In the beginning we still talked, although not every day. Being apart from her became harder and harder and when we did talk I was apprehensive. I was told by her brother in law who is a very good friend of mine that I needed to give her space. So I did. I stopped calling her although I continued to write her about God and what I was learning while being apart from her. I didn't write about us or anything like that because I didn't want to push her or make her feel like she was being pushed by me. The last time we talked she told me that we should see other people just to clarify our doubts. I told her that the only one with doubts was her and that I still loved her so how can I see anyone else? I didn't see that as being fair for the other person at all. Yet, I told her that she could see other people if that's what she needed to do. Again, very hard for me to do. Yesterday I went to her house to drop off a book and some stuff I wrote about the book. I was just going to put it in her mailbox but when I got there, she was leaving and we saw each other. We talked for a while and I got so many mixed messages from her. She went out on a date with someone else. She is no longer feeling depressed and this is for many different reasons, one of them being medication and the other is her improvement with her relationship with God. I asked her if she was moving on and she didn't really answer. She told me that a lot of people are giving her different advice. I told her that before she moves on, she needs to give us another chance because I feel like we owe it to each other after six years. She's finally able to see the wonderful person that she is and I feel like she would be able to give me the love she says I deserve. We left things completely unresolved and I am going crazy. It's just so crazy because I know that she has feelings for me but I feel like she's afraid of going right back into the same situation. I don't blame her for this at all but we will never know unless we try.
So I guess my question to you guys is, do I give her space or do I continue to try and build a dialogue in which we can resolve some of these unanswered questions? I have been soul searching this entire time we've been apart and I feel like I've grown as a man and in no way has my love for her diminished. One would think that if it wasn't real, I would feel totally different about her. I also know that she loves me but I also know that she has a lot of doubts. Man, I am in a world of hurt. Sorry to unload on you guys.
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Re: Advice -- tg, 16:23:32 02/28/06 Tue [1]
You need to move on.
You're young and there are other fish in the sea. She wasn't the right one for you and she has spared you alot of grief, in the future. Be thankful and you will be able to see that later.
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Re: Advice -- chico781, 16:29:31 02/28/06 Tue [1]
I understand that I am young and that there are other people out there but I am so in love with her. I honestly feel that if I don't fight for her that I will regret it for the rest of my life.
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Re: Advice -- 23, 17:21:02 02/28/06 Tue [1]
Follow your heart, man.
I could tell you to play the game - don't call her, don't write her, don't seek her out because women don't want someone who wants them that badly because they look desperate. I could tell you to do that and it just may work, but it wouldn't be what I would do.
I refused to ever play those games. If I love someone, I tell them so and show them that I do. You are obviously deeply in love with this person. You are always going to wonder "what if?" if you don't pursue this as much as you feel necessary (short of stalking her).
If she doesn't want you, you'll find out. But at least you'll know. If you think you have the emotional strength to deal with rejection, follow your heart.
Sounds like a really tough situation. I wish you the best of luck.
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Re: Advice -- amadaun, 18:45:55 02/28/06 Tue [1]
Chico, you sound like an incredibly thoughtful, supportive, loving guy.
I think Nathan's advice is absolutely spot on - give it a last shot, talk to her about what you are feeling as honestly as you can. Then you have done everything possible, and should have no regrets.
Whatever happens, is meant to be.
If things don't work out,just go with it, and see what life brings you. You may not have met your soulmate yet,- she could be just around the corner!
Best of luck........
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Re: Advice -- chico781, 23:24:58 02/28/06 Tue [1]
Well, I just want to thank all of you guys for your advice. I think you're right. I need to do this for myself. I need to take that step forward because I can't be in limbo anymore.
Thanks, my friends.
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Re: Advice -- chrys, 01:36:26 03/01/06 Wed [1]
chico,
started to reply earlier, then got called away by some people inviting me to dinner, and i guess i never "approved" my original post. darn it all, i am trying to remember.
i think for you it's something you need to know, what she is feeling. it's obvious you really love her, and that you have a lot of history. can you call her up and say you want to sit down and talk to her about where things are with the two of you? does she know that you were upset about her suggesting you guys see other people?
the waiting is the hardest part, there is no doubt to that, and the uncertainty. better to find out i think, one way or the other, where this is going.
also sometimes when people get really depressed, and then seem really a lot happier soon afterwards, that happiness can be a bit of a farce. not necessarily an intentional one at all. usually there is just so much relief that the worst is over, or the relief of being on meds, but i think usually a lot of depression just takes longer than that to get through. i am only saying this b/c she may still be dealing with some depression, though not as severe, and that may have an influence. it's like my friend, the one who attempted suicide, and now seems so very very chipper. inside she may still be confused or struggling, though not as much as before, and it's just something to be aware of.
also i think it is somewhat common for ppl in their 20s (i am guessing she is b/c you said that thing about college and how she was never alone through it) to question who am i, what am i doing with myself. i wasn't aware of that, and i worked w/a whole bunch of ppl in my age group at a camp for this one season and they were all soooo mean, like junior high exclusive mean, and an older friend of mine pointed otu that a lot of ppl in their 20s go through a time of real insecurity for awhile. since then i have heard that from a lot of people much older and wiser than i am. so some of what she's feeling can just be typical of the life-stage and age. of course, that doesn't make it any less important or anything, just pointing that out.
sounds like you are a totally caring and supportive guy, and hopefully she will see that. either way i think it's best to talk to her and let her know how you feel and ask her where she's at with it all. now that you've taken some time off maybe it is time to re-evaluate where things are and where they're going.
anyway, i hear ya and feel for ya in your world of hurt. it's no easy place to be, but you love her, you can do it, i can tell : )
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Re: Advice -- Christian, 03:52:02 03/01/06 Wed [1]
Chico,
Man I don't envy you...
Having read your side of the story (and if you want me to be brutally honest) she's trying to ditch you, plain & simple, but she doesn't have the guts to come out and say it.
"I need to find myself"..."I don't know who I am"..."I think we should see other people"..."It's not you, it's me"..."I need some space"...
She's hit you with pretty much every gem in existence to get out of a relationship without really taking responsibility for it or appearing to be the 'bad guy'. And if her friends/relatives are telling you to back off - it's because she wants them to tell you that.
I've seen this happen alot around the time that people make that commitment to marry. It raises all kinds of questions and doubts. A good friend of mine and his girlfriend recently got engaged, bought a house together and within a month of moving in, broke up. At least there aren't children involved which is where it gets really complicated.
Mate my advice is to take a hint & move on. I personally would make her take responsibility for her decisions and call it what it is - after 6 years she owes you honesty and respect if nothing else. But I think she's trying to put you in a situation where she can make the decline of the relationship YOUR fault ("he just smothered me" etc) and you shouldn't play into that game.
Chris
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Re: Advice -- tg, 18:04:35 03/01/06 Wed [1]
I still think you should move on, but I would have to agree with twan/23. If you don't know what she wants and you need to know if she still loves you, you need to tell her how you feel and she needs to be honest. I would say it's better to know than to not know so you can go on with things.
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Re: Advice -- chrys, 19:12:29 03/01/06 Wed [1]
i'd also vote for it's better to know. that's whyi think you should try to sit down and have a talk with her about where things stand now and where they're going.
in hs i dated this guy, for seven months, lol, nothing compared to six years. anyway, he broke up with me and gave me a completely bogus story about why (he said it had to w/a friend of mine getting in the middle of things). he later told me it was bogus, well actually was like, why would you ever think that had anything to do w/why we broke up? ummm duh b/c you said it had everything to do w/it. at the time he even gave me all this "i love you too much to put you in the middle of me and your best friend." (insert gagging). so the point is that it was a bogus reason. when i finally got the courage up to ask him what really happened, cuz i thought it was info i should know for the future, he gave me another bogus answer (this time it was something that happened AFTER the actual break up so that was obviously not really it). and then, being the type of person to overthink things, i imagined all the things that might be the real reason. that is no fun.
sooo my point is, if you can sit down and try to be straight with her, now, about how you feel, and at the same time being open to what she feels even if it's not what you want to hear, i think that is the chance to get things on the table. and i would also say make her own up to it. ask questions. be honest. i think the more open and honest you are, the more it will encourage that in return. it will be better to have some sort of closure then it will to torture yourself with wondering this and that, and with the regret you have already spoken of in an above post. in the end it'll probably be best for you both.
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Re: Advice -- LastingOne, 23:15:31 03/01/06 Wed [1]
Chico,
People have given their words of advice, so I don't feel I need to add on, but I just hope that you give yourself the grace and compassion you need during this difficult time. I will hold you in my thoughts.
I will say that you should always listen to your heart, because it is a powerful energy source, BUT always follow your gut. Intuition is a powerful gift we all have- we just tend to ignore it.
Peace to you,
~C
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Re: Advice -- chico781, 23:31:13 03/01/06 Wed [1]
I know that by what I said it may seem like I should move on and that she's playing me but in my heart I don't feel that way. One thing is certain, I need to go for it. I can no longer sit back because it's totally killing me. So what I am doing is laying it all out on the table. I expect her honesty and I know that I will get it. I still feel that what we have is real. I feel like she's letting all of her fears control her instead of just allowing her heart to lead her. It's kind of the same situation with Chrys where there's that fear of letting go of yourself because we're not sure they'll accept us as we are.
So I am laying it all out. There's no way I could move on without doing that because there would always be those "what ifs" for me. I wouldn't be at peace with myself if I didn't follow my heart and my gut. My heart tells me that she's the one for me and my gut is telling me to fight for her.
I just want to thank all of you guys again for your kind words and advice.
Much love,
Sergio
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Re: Advice -- chrys, 00:00:44 03/02/06 Thu [1]
go you. it will be better once you know, whatever the outcome. at least thats what i keep telling myself. i am glad you are going for it. once you know you have laid it on the line, then you can see where that goes and whether you need to move on or not, but w/o all that regret and wondering what if for the rest of your life!
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Re: Advice -- alight, 05:20:33 03/02/06 Thu [1]
I wish you good luck in going forward in your decision, and I'm hoping for the best future outcome for both of you.
It's my impression that she's not playing games with you. After six years together, it's not some courtship ritual she's seeking or is motivated by. She's been confused and conflicted about the relationship for a while now. The major moves towards commitment this past fall seem to have been too much for her to handle, unless there were other substantial changes in her circumstance, or perhaps a major loss occurring at that time, which might have brought on the depression. BTW around six months is the normal course for acute depression, after which it spontaneously lifts, therapy/medication or not.
Seeing that it was only a few days ago that she was not able to give you clear answers to your questions, it's unlikely you'll get a much different response now, especially in the direction that you would hope for. I understand your drive to follow your heart and gut, and I do feel 'you gotta do what you gotta do'. At the same time, I agree with a lot of what Christian had to say. Whether or not she has stated it clearly enough, she does need to have time to define herself outside of your relationship. Even if you can convince her to 'give it another try', she will still have that need, and yes, it would eventually be going back to the same situation.
Of course she has a lot of feeling and love for you, and she got a great deal out of your relationship. If she didn't, there wouldn't have been the internal conflict, I would assume, and the resulting depression. It was a very difficult emotional place for her to be. She still has those conflicts, those feelings, I'm sure. Perhaps that's why it's hard for her to be confident in her decision to grow separately and to be able to relate that to you.
All this doesn't help your feelings much, does it :(
I'm sorry you're going through this. Stating the obvious... love hurts. You seem to be a very loving and devoted man, which unfortunately makes this all the more painful.
I can only echo what Amadaun, and others have said-- give it your best shot, if that's what you feel you need to do. "Then you have done everything possible, and should have no regrets". It may not be enough to take away the pain, if she doesn't want the relationship that you want, but it could help you to move forward towards happiness in the future.
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Re: Advice -- lump, 09:13:59 03/02/06 Thu [1]
Chico - I have so much respect for you just simply for putting your heart aside and doing what you thought was best for this girl that you love. That is love. Most people wouldn't stand by and wait like that. That takes a shitload of strength. Even though it hurts, I hope a little part of you takes some pride in your ability to do that for another person.
Depression sucks and I can totally understand how much it can affect how you perceive another person - even one that you love. Maybe though she should see a psycologist or psychiatrist instead of a therapist though. It sounds like she's getting TOO MUCh advice. A psycologist/psychiatrist is not supposed to give advice. I think councelors and therapists ought to keep their mouths shut too, to be honest.
I don't have any advice on what to do - I think you'll follow your heart.
But I do have one interesting side point. I don't know how old you two are. Before I graduated from high school, I decided that my life goal was to have no regrets. Young and niave, I didn't realize it's impossible. Anyhow, I was in the work program and worked at B&W in Barberton. There were at that time so many smart and inspirational woman who worked there. I really looked up to them. So I asked, one by one, what their biggest regret in life was. ALL of them said moving straight from their parents house to their husbands' house - metaphorically - was their biggest regret. NONE of them had taken time to live on their own (and being an older generation - most of them couldn't have anyhow). They all felt like they never really got to have that time alone to figure out who they were. They were daughter, then wife and mother and nothing in between.
I took that advice to heart. I thought it was pretty shocking. I moved out of my parents house a month and a half after I graduated from high school. I only got less than a year (before I got knocked up and my bf moved in), but I did that for me and for those ladies. Maybe your girl needs the same?
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Re: Advice -- chico781, 10:22:05 03/02/06 Thu [1]
alight, your insight is I think, "right on the money." I don't think she's playing me either although she is definitely confused about a lot of things. Man, I am just so confused on what to do. I swear that I want to pull my hair out.
Lump, I think what you said about those ladies is very interesting. Her sister said that same thing. I know that she's been talking about renting out a house with her friend. I told her that I support her living on her own and that we don't have to get married right away. Would you say that living on your own completely excludes the possibility of her being with me? By this I mean, does living on your own mean being completely alone?
Thanks again,
Sergio
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Re: Advice -- lump, 10:37:17 03/02/06 Thu [1]
Chico - no. I wouldn't say that living on her own means excluding you at all.
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Re: Advice -- Robert, 20:35:07 03/02/06 Thu [1]
Chico, I don't know the woman at all, so please don't take this the wrong way, but something sounds wrong here. She doesn't know how to love herself, yet the two of you should see other people?
Dig this. I want you to skip this part if you're still hurting....
Bro, you don't find yourself in a few weeks. It's only been about 8 weeks since Christmas. If she was off the rails that bad, shed still be putting herself back together, not trying to date other people.
If you ask me, she did you a HUGE favor. I went through almost the same exact experience. It broke my heart, but a few years later I was thanking God that the shit hit the fan before I locked in with a chick that would have made my life miserable.
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Re: Advice -- chico781, 00:50:22 03/03/06 Fri [1]
Robert, don't worry about offending me. By what I wrote, it does seem sort of suspect. I know that there's a chance that what you, Christian, TG and others are saying is completely right. My heart tells me otherwise. I need to hear it from her before I give in. I understand that I can't force anyone to love me so if she doesn't love me, then it's obvious that I will be better off on my own. I'm just hoping it isn't so.
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Re: Advice -- light, 03:33:18 03/03/06 Fri [1]
Sometimes even two people loving each other doesn't mean a committed relationship is right for them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
in the meantime--
Things to do in in lieu of hair-pulling-out:
write poetry, lyrics, songs, nihilistic essays; paint, draw, sculpt, create violent cartoons; practice that damned guitar, get blisters on your fingers; take drugs, like everyone else... nah, don't do that; immerse yourself in learning something new... nah, don't do that either... help other people... meh
Anyway, you get the picture. Find yourself a creative outlet for your feelings. Not only will it help you deal with your emotions in the most productive (I think) way possible, but the results might possibly have a positive effect on others... besides bringing you fame, fortune and adoring fans ;)
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Re: Advice -- chico781, 12:17:31 03/03/06 Fri [1]
Yeah! I'm going to become a rock n' roll star! I have actually tried to come up with things to do like hanging out with my friends and starting to play the guitar. I've also been writing a lot of stuff although I know for a fact that none of it is good. It's helped me, though which is what is important. Now, I've always loved learning something new but it's been so damn hard to concentrate. I know that in time, that will change in one way or another.
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Re: Advice -- chrys, 15:50:16 03/03/06 Fri [1]
"but i know for a fact that none of it's good."
why do people always say that about their own stuff? usually even in a whole lot of junk, there are pearls. my guy just threw out a couple weeks worth of writing b/c it didn't start right. made me want to slap him again, lol, kidding of course.
someone told me the other day, that sometimes we think we can't write when we're in the middle of the shit, but sometimes it's the best way to process. i think i am gonna work on doing some of that. i had one crazy winter. don't want to forget it, you know?
so maybe even if it doesn't start or come out right, or how you think it should, keep at it anyway. sometimes it helps clear the gunk from your mind. sometimes it helps you remember. i remember i had a REALLY awful winter a couple years back, my first on the island, a lot of emotional issues and soem heartbreak to deal with, and it was fucking HARD. by the time spring came around, i just remember thinking how glad i was that i had stayed here and gone through all that, and that it was over, lol. sometimes the details will be helpful later on. so i say keep on writing as much "bad" stuff as you can, and look back at it later, and find the gems.
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Re: Advice -- chico781, 17:04:00 03/03/06 Fri [1]
Thanks, Chrys. I really do enjoy writing and I wish I was better at it. It really does help to write these feelings down and I know that even though they're not good (technically speaking), all the stuff that I write is from the heart, which I think is more important than writing beautifully but with no heart at all. At least I am not afraid of writing. My ex writes some beautiful stuff but she has that fear of not creating something good so a lot of times she gets crippled and doesn't do anything artistically.
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Re: Advice -- chrys, 18:18:59 03/03/06 Fri [1]
your ex is like my writing coaching client. she thinks if she puts pen to paer, it has to come out "right" or sophisticated or academic or something like that, and so she doesn't write. and she has a great book inside her, and the way she describes things in speaking is like, wonderful. she has really colorful ways of getting her concepts across, great illustrative phrases, etc, but she somehow doesn't think they are officially good enough to put in a real book.
but if you enjoy it, keep doing it. that's the only way to get better anyway. there's this GREAT book by brenda ueland called "if you want to write..." and it's short and sweet, but one of the things she says is, if you want to know how to make a story (poem, essay, etc) better, write three more. then you can look back and see what was wrong w/the first.
also, i take these memoir writing classes at the local library, and i'm always surprised like, there are people who've never written, but my god, when they get deep into their own stuff, there is SO much there, and the writing almost alwys comes out good. when it doesn't is when it just scratches the suface. usually you can see picky things that would need to be changed, but it's all stuff that eediting can take care of. a lot of times if you're telling a story, writing it, and you are reliving it at the same time, i don't know it just comes out right. i think it's when people shy away from their deepest material that it comes out sounding dry and tedious. at that point it doesn't matter if you can describe a tear better than anyone else, if you don't feel that tear, does that make sense? i think its true in music too. it doesn't have to be verbatim, or literally true at all, but we sorta know what's authentic and what's artificial. and once you have the authentic, you can always fix it, edit the picky things.
now i'm inspired too, lol. i'm working on editing my first book, but i'm also getting the itch to write again. for awhile i was done, i had holed myself up for awhile to write, i wanted to live. now i've done some living and have things to write about, juice for the well, and i want to write again. but i'm also going to not confine my stuff to just one section, as i have been. i'm going to throw all the things into a hat and pick one out.
so keep on keeping on...the only way to get better is to keep doing it. think about it like practicing an instrument, which it sort of is.
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Re: Advice -- chico781, 18:26:00 03/03/06 Fri [1]
You know, what you just wrote reminded me of Jorge Luis Borges. He's one of the greatest writers in Latin American history and he just lived to read and write. He lived his life through writing and pretty much holed himself up in real life.
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Re: Advice -- chico781, 16:04:31 03/21/06 Tue [1]
Well, I've been meaning to write about what happened but so much has been going on that I just couldn't bring myself to do it. So here it goes...
After seeing her, I wrote her the longest e-mail stating the case for us. I just totally poured my heart out. She wrote me back telling me that she was going to write me a letter. I'm not much of a pushy guy so I decided to let her write her letter. Everyday I woke up to check my mail and still no letter. I felt like shit. I started to believe that whatever she was writing was not going to be what I wanted to read but I just wanted an answer. I couldn't hold on anymore. I waited and waited. My days were complete hell as I was waiting for a letter that would let me know if my relationship with this girl was over or not. Then I just lost it. I sent her a text message telling her that what she was doing to me was destroying me and that I needed an answer. I deserved so much more than what she was going to do. My friend came over that night and we got drunk. When he left I went to check my e-mail just in the off chance that she had written me back. She had but it had absolutely nothing to do about us. She just wrote me about how she had gotten a teaching position and that I had a lot to do with the fact she had gotten it. I totally lost it. I called her at 3:30 AM to get an answer. I couldn't wait any longer. She didn't pick up but she called me back in like 2 minutes. I just blew up on her. I called her every name in the book but I specially called her weak. She didn't have the scrupules to be honest with me after all that we had been through. I asked her how she allowed me to buy a house, why she said yes when I asked her to marry me, why she had told me to hold onto the ring for whenever we were ready if she never intended to come back. It was totally insane. She didn't even defend herself because she knew I was right. She cried and told me that I was completely right and that she was weak, that she just didn't know how to tell me. She told me that she would never be able to forgive herself. It was crazy because by the end of the call I was the one comforting her. We talked until the sun came up and later in the day she came over and we talked face to face. I laid everything on the table. I had nothing else left. When she left, I was in complete shock. I went to my parents' house and I just cried. The pain I felt was unlike any that I would have imagined possible. I felt empty and lost. Every day since then has been a challenge. I don't know what emotion I'm going to feel from one day to the next. There has been anger, depression, anxiety, relief, hope... I feel like God has a bigger plan for me and that love will come to me in time and it will be better than ever. I really believe that which makes me feel great. Yet, I just feel sad because a thing that once was so beautiful is now over. My life as I knew it is over and now I have to start over new. I feel like I'm a leaf floating in the air and I'm waiting to see where I land.
I just want to thank all of you guys who have given me advice and kept me in their thoughts because I have needed all the support in the world to get through this.
Thanks...
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Re: Advice -- lump, 16:39:54 03/21/06 Tue [1]
It's amazing to me how alcohol can sometimes like a spray of bullshit and sometimes like truth syrum.
I'm glad you confronted her. YOU needed that. Be an autumn leaf for a while. Float around with your eyes open and see what's out there. Fate won't make you land - you will. :)
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Re: Advice -- taurus, 16:43:02 03/21/06 Tue [1]
Yes, I'm very happy you confronted her. It's all up to you now, don't leave it up to her.
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Re: Advice -- Leo, 08:15:12 03/22/06 Wed [1]
After reading your post, I feel a great sense of hope for you. I know you went through hell, but you can look forward to filling that emptiness you describe. There's nothing like being at day one, and having the ability to start over. I wish you all the luck!
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