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Date Posted: 21:10:54 08/20/01 Mon
Author: Goktimus Prime
Subject: I'm gonna be an idiot and disagree with you guys. :p
In reply to: Seven of Nine 's message, "Re: Jackie Chan not a martial artist? What Bullshit!!!" on 07:45:54 08/20/01 Mon

>I've heard idiots say that jackie chan isn't a martial
>artist, just a circus dude.

He is. Read his autobiography. He grew up /w Sammo Hung in the Chinese circus. *After* he became an actor, he learnt a few *basic* punches and kicks to incorporate into his acrobatics/gymnastics.

But Jackie Chan is first and foremost, a gymnast/acrobat.

>If ya seen his movies, tell me he isn't a martial
>artist!

I've seen his movies. He's not a martial artist. :p :p

>Even if jackie said, "I'm not a martial artist" He
>doesn't know what his on about. He might not be a
>serious martial artist like Jet Li for instance, but,
>he trains, he kicks, he blocks, his fast, he obviously
>has power and stamina, i could go on forever, so
>doesn't this all make a martial artist?

Marathon runners and olympic swimmers also have power and stamina. Does this make them martial artists?

>p.s. Mad msg board going on here!

Thank you. :)

>I've also heard idiots who say that jackie Chan is a
>martial artist.
>

Hahahahaha.

>It is not a matter of intellegence but rather a
>perception of what is or isn't martial arts. Lots of
>people have speed, stamina, endurence, power etc who
>aren't martial artist if their traiing is in other
>activities - such as say track & field sports. There
>are also people who aren't much of the above but who
>train in hand to hand combat.
>

*nod*

>My question to this would be: how much does Kung Fu
>have to change before it becomes a dance? The answer
>is probably going to be very subjective.

(from Dictionary.com)

mar�tial (m�r'shl)
adj.
1. Of, relating to, or suggestive of war.
2. Relating to or connected with the armed forces or the profession of arms.
3. Characteristic of or befitting a warrior.

[Middle English, from Latin M�rtilis, from M�rs, M�rt-, Mars.]

Heh, that means that semantically speaking, a warrior can be called a "Martian." :-D

Anyway, as you can see, anything pertaining to a martial art needs to be orientated towards warfare/combat.

Although Jackie Chan's acrobatics are very skilful and fantastic, they are NOT combat orientated.

And quoting his movies does not qualify him as a fighter, since he and his opponents are all just acting, and not fighting for real. I mean, I'd let you knock me out with some whacky move if you paid me wads of cash.

"Who do you want me to beat up? I'll beat meself up for this much, eheheheh." - Ursus (Hercules Returns)

When Kung Fu, or any other martial art, removes its focus AWAY from combat and orients itself towards other goals, such as competition, dancing, looking good etc., then it is no longer, semantically speaking, a martial art.

What Jackie Chan does is a form of art, I think he's a brilliant physical performer who can entertain people with his fantastic body motions. Something which he didn't learn from martial arts, but from Charlie Chaplin. There are very few "body" comedians left in the world. Most comedians like Seinfeld entertain with wit. Which is fine, but the art of entertaining with action is a completely different style of comedy, and something which Jackie Chan excels in.

Consequently, I believe that Jackie Chan is a fine entertainer and a fantastic stuntman/acrobat. However, I do not consider him to be a martial artist.

Thank you.

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Replies:

Re: I'm gonna be an idiot and disagree with you guys. :p -- Drunkenmaster, 23:44:21 08/20/01 Mon
- Re: I'm gonna be an idiot and disagree with you guys. :p -- Fourth Horseman, 05:58:56 08/21/01 Tue
- Re: I'm gonna be an idiot and disagree with you guys. :p -- Goktimus Prime, 21:49:14 08/21/01 Tue
  - Conclusion -- Drunkenmaster, 23:33:12 08/21/01 Tue
    - Re: Conclusion -- Seven of Nine, 03:49:04 08/22/01 Wed
    - I agree with the Seven O'Nine -- Goktimus Prime, 16:32:17 08/22/01 Wed
      - Re: I agree with the Seven O'Nine -- seven of nine, 08:13:33 08/25/01 Sat
        A quest for surreality? -- Goktimus Prime, 16:37:33 08/26/01 Sun
        Re: A quest for surreality? -- Seven of Nine, 19:10:11 08/31/01 Fri
        you are wrong about mooncake -- blah, 00:56:27 11/22/02 Fri
        You missed my point... -- Goktimus Prime, 16:46:34 11/22/02 Fri
        Re: You missed my point... -- OneDragons, 04:12:59 12/19/02 Thu
        poetic comparisons -- Goktimus Prime, 15:26:47 12/20/02 Fri
        Re: poetic comparisons -- OneDragons, 18:31:30 12/20/02 Fri
        Why people compare shit to movies -- Drunkenmaster, 23:17:57 09/05/01 Wed
        Could you please cut down on the amount of swearing in your subject headers? -- Goktimus Prime, 17:53:54 09/06/01 Thu
        freedom of speech bitch lol -- Drunkenmaster, 22:58:03 09/16/01 Sun
        Re: freedom of speech bitch lol -- Goktimus Prime, 18:00:12 09/23/01 Sun
        Re: freedom of speech bitch lol -- MoJ0, 06:06:48 04/04/02 Thu
        Re: Why people compare shit to movies -- Nakedswordsman, 05:15:54 04/04/02 Thu
    - Re: Conclusion -- Nakedswordsman, 05:56:36 04/04/02 Thu
      - Re: Conclusion -- Goktimus Prime, 02:58:02 04/05/02 Fri
  - Re: I'm gonna be an idiot and disagree with you guys. :p -- PersonX, 20:46:03 10/09/02 Wed
  - Re: I'm gonna be an idiot and disagree with you guys. :p -- Mike Amos, 11:52:39 10/14/02 Mon