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Date Posted: 18:38:46 05/31/02 Fri
Author: Doug
Subject: Re: The Holy Spirit
In reply to: Jay Dee 's message, "Re: The Holy Spirit" on 19:10:58 05/28/02 Tue

Hi Jay Dee,

I'm enjoying our discussion. Yes, I know what the italics in the KJV mean. Obviously, in John 3:34 they used Dynamic Equivalence, just as the the "paraphrasers" did with the NIV. I simply misspoke previously and had another passage of Scripture in mind and for that I apologize. I was going from memory and should have checked before speaking. However, be that as it may, I did say that if the "unto Him" is not in the original (and it isn't), then adding it does not harm the text - not at all. I believe the translators of the KJV were simply expressing, what I feel is the idea of the context. Again, the context is dealing with the testimony of Christ or Christ's testimony. The subject of verse 34 is the inspiration by which came the message. The Father spokethrough the Son who had the fullness of the Spirit and that power,which He exercised, was without limit and unmeasured - without measure and this certainly was "unto Him", was it not?

I agree with you that the inference some use to teach that there are measures of the Spirit given is false and does not fit the context. But I will also say that those who believe in a personal, literal, bodily, ordinary, non-miraculous indwelling often distort this passge as well, by claiming it teaches the giving of the Spirit to all people. This passge does not apply to us today or to anyone today. There is no promise of any kind of measure to anyone found in John 3:34, whether it without measure or in part. This verse has absolutely no connection with Pentecost or anytime following. It simply has reference to Christ and Him alone!

As for John 7:38-39. This passage has nothing to do with anyone today as well. It was for the people, namely the apostles, of that day. John declares that Christ had not yet been glorified and that the Holy Spirit had not yet been given. John also says that "those believing" or literally "the believing ones," at that moment, would recieve. Therefore, the context clearly limits the audience of those who would be receiving the Spirit - it does not expand it, as you seem to want to believe. Youngs literal translation I believe says it very well, those believing "were about to receive, for not yet was the Holy Spirit given. He is talking to select few who would receive (future tense) because Christ had yet to be glorified. Notice John 16:7-14, where the very same writer says that Jesus promised the Spirit to the apostles and He would guide THEM into all truth and Christ will be glorified. THe giving of the Spirit would come on Pentecost and thats what happened to the apostles (Acts 2:1-4). It's the same audience.

I see this similar to the promise of Mark 16:17-20, which obviously limited to the apostles. Another similar text is Acts 5:32. If we do not take all the elements into consideration, then one might just as well argue that the baptism in/with the Holy Spirit was not limited to just the apostles. All of these references are to the supernatural work of inspiration and signs worked by the apostles.

Brotherly,
Doug Post

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