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Date Posted: 19:10:58 05/28/02 Tue
Author: Jay Dee
Subject: Re: The Holy Spirit
In reply to: Doug 's message, "Re: The Holy Spirit" on 19:22:03 05/25/02 Sat

Hello Doug,

Thank you for the response, but let me see if I understand you correctly. First of all,

Regarding John 3:34, you had mentioned that because the words "unto him" are not found in the "original," then that alters the meaning of the text.

That is not necessarily so. There are over 500 manuscripts that include it and only two do not. That is not overwhelming evidence! Secondly, even if the words do not appear in the text it certainly does not detract from the fact that God gave Christ the Spirit without measure. First, the context of v.34 shows us that God sent Jesus and that He was the one that "speaks the words of God." Jesus spoke the truth because He spoke the word from God (v.33). The context has to do with Christ's testimony (v.32). Therefore, the subject of verse 34 is the inspiration by which the message came. The Father spoke through the Son, in whom was the fullness of the Spirit. Hence, the power He exercised, by the Spirit, is limitless and unmeasured.
So, whether or not the the "UNTO HIM" is in the original, it certainly fits the context.

From what I understand you to be saying, the "Greek" manuscripts contain the two words "unto him." I have to ask, are you familiar with the purpose of the use of italics in the KJV? If not, then read the introduction to the KJV. Words that are in italics are words that do NOT appear the the Greek text. Clearly, the KJV translators were engaging in interpretation and not translation in this text. The other possiblity is that this was something that had existed in the Latin manuscripts. I checked for myself, and I can find no evidence of 500 Greek manuscripts that contain the variant. The only variant I find is that there are a handful of manuscripts that omit the words "to pneuma" "the Spirit" which was apparently a scribal error, as the words appear in the margin in the manuscripts.

So, the passage says merely that God gives the Spirit without measure, which also fits the context, since Jesus was given the Spirit.

If you have a written source about the 500 manuscripts. I would be interested in knowing what it is.

As far as the rest, you said -

My view is that this verse teaches that Christ had the Spirit without without limit, as evidence by His peaking thye words of God. However, I alos believe that that this verse has absolutely no application for anyone today - none whatsoever. This passage in no way states that anyone today is promised a "measure of the spirit" of any kind, nor does it even imply such.

As for John 7:38-39; this passage also has nothing to do with a "non-miraculous personal, literal indwelling" that many assume it to be. Where is there a hint of such in this passage? Actually, this passage points to Pentecost and to the miraculous coming of the Spirit on that day, which Christ promised would come upon the apostles (John 16:14-15: Luke 24:49), and which also Joel promised (Joel 2:28-32). Everything about this entire context has to do with the miraculous, not something called "ordinary" or a "literal, personal, bodily, non-miraculous indwelling."

Of course Jesus had the Spirit without limit. God gives the Spirit without measure. We also see that the Spirit descended on him like a dove.

There is no indication that the promise of the Spirit was only meant for apostles. Read John 7 again. Notice:

"37 Now on the last day, the great [day] of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, from within him shall flow rivers of living water. 39 But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believed on him were to receive: for the Spirit was not yet [given]; because Jesus was not yet glorified.


It is for those who believe in him, and that is certainly much more inclusive than just the Apostles. Jesus promised the Holy Spirit, and Peter clearly said that is was for more than just the Apostles. Notice -

"14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and spake forth unto them, [saying], Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and give ear unto my words. 15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose; seeing it is [but] the third hour of the day. 16 but this is that which hath been spoken through the prophet Joel: 17 And it shall be in the last days, saith God, I will pour forth of My Spirit upon all flesh . . . 33 Being therefore by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath poured forth this, which ye see and hear . . . 37 Now when they heard [this,] they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and the rest of the apostles, Brethren, what shall we do? 38 And Peter [said] unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call unto him. "


How do we receive the Spirit? Peter said how. Notice what Paul says in Gal. 3, "1 O foolish Galatians, who did bewitch you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was openly set forth crucified? 2 This only would I learn from you. Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? "

If those who have the Spirit are those who hear, have faith, repent, and are baptized, according to these passages.

Does possession of the Spirit guarantee miraculous abilities? No. Notice in 1 Cor 12,

"11 All these are inspired by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.


The Spirit apportions to each one as he wants to. Not everyone had the same miraculous gift, and not everyone even had a miraculous gift. However, everyone did have the Holy Spirit. If someone did not, this is what Paul said,

"9 But you are not in the flesh, you are in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Any one who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. 10 But if Christ is in you, although your bodies are dead because of sin, your spirits are alive because of righteousness. 11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit which dwells in you.


So the one and the same Spirit is given to all who become Christians. But that does not mean all who have the Spirit will likewise have miraculous gifts.

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